lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
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Daywalker
DanRickard
6 posters
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lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
i used my lee .224 sizing die punch as a punch for swaging .224's. it didn't work out so well.
it started out ok, but noticed the bullets where not forming as well as they should.. i moved the die down a 1/4 turn, and did a couple, and still no change, kept moving it after a couple until i got about 2 full turns lower, and started to think something was not right here, the bullets should have been forming much further down than they should.
i finally noticed the punch had bent to all hell.. luckly i didn't deform my die.
so, i went to the hardware store and picked up a #8 tempered bolt, and started turning it down with my drill motor and bench grinder and was able to make a new punch.. it took most of the day to do it, the bolt was ultra hard.. seemed to be much harder than the stock lee sizing punch. so with any luck maybe it wont bend on me.
here is a pic of the new punch i made next to the bent lee stock punch.
so for all those who are going to be trying to make their own point forming dies.. it maybe best to make a different harder punch than the stock lee sizing punch.. they are soft steel..
it started out ok, but noticed the bullets where not forming as well as they should.. i moved the die down a 1/4 turn, and did a couple, and still no change, kept moving it after a couple until i got about 2 full turns lower, and started to think something was not right here, the bullets should have been forming much further down than they should.
i finally noticed the punch had bent to all hell.. luckly i didn't deform my die.
so, i went to the hardware store and picked up a #8 tempered bolt, and started turning it down with my drill motor and bench grinder and was able to make a new punch.. it took most of the day to do it, the bolt was ultra hard.. seemed to be much harder than the stock lee sizing punch. so with any luck maybe it wont bend on me.
here is a pic of the new punch i made next to the bent lee stock punch.
so for all those who are going to be trying to make their own point forming dies.. it maybe best to make a different harder punch than the stock lee sizing punch.. they are soft steel..
DanRickard- Member
- Posts : 207
Join date : 2010-10-18
Age : 50
Location : vancouver, wa
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
I plan on making harder punches for the point forming dies that I will be making to offer up for sale. I have ordered a small supply of blank dies and should be on their way here for me to get started with making the dies.
It makes since for Lee not to produce such a hardened punch as their intent purpose was just to push cast boolits into a sizing die without much pressure at all. However, taking the factory punch and torching it to a glow red and quinching in oil will make the punch harder.
I will be working on making different punches for different styles...
It makes since for Lee not to produce such a hardened punch as their intent purpose was just to push cast boolits into a sizing die without much pressure at all. However, taking the factory punch and torching it to a glow red and quinching in oil will make the punch harder.
I will be working on making different punches for different styles...
Daywalker- Admin
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Join date : 2010-10-18
Location : Virginia
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
Daywalker wrote:I plan on making harder punches for the point forming dies that I will be making to offer up for sale. I have ordered a small supply of blank dies and should be on their way here for me to get started with making the dies.
It makes since for Lee not to produce such a hardened punch as their intent purpose was just to push cast boolits into a sizing die without much pressure at all. However, taking the factory punch and torching it to a glow red and quinching in oil will make the punch harder.
I will be working on making different punches for different styles...
man, i would love it if you could make a boat tail punch! lol.. man that would be a sweet 224 bullet.
dan
DanRickard- Member
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Age : 50
Location : vancouver, wa
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
Uh... I have not gotten that far yet in fabricating lol. I am still learning.. It could be a possibility. I know someone that has a boatail but I believe it is actually another whole seperate die but for a different set up. I need to talk to him some more anyways..
Daywalker- Admin
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Location : Virginia
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
hay daywalker.
i also did another expierement, and pressed a 224 upside down.. with the lead opening at the bottom.. it made a sweet solid point bullet.
if i could find a way to make a semi boat tail punch, it may curl the open bottom inward to allot it to become a flat solid base.. we would have a fmj then..
dan
i also did another expierement, and pressed a 224 upside down.. with the lead opening at the bottom.. it made a sweet solid point bullet.
if i could find a way to make a semi boat tail punch, it may curl the open bottom inward to allot it to become a flat solid base.. we would have a fmj then..
dan
DanRickard- Member
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Join date : 2010-10-18
Age : 50
Location : vancouver, wa
DanRickard- Member
- Posts : 207
Join date : 2010-10-18
Age : 50
Location : vancouver, wa
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
Make a gas check die for a .224 bullet, gas check it then push it in backwards and you would have a fully enclosed bullet as well. One might be able to make a bottom punch and drill a boat tail profile, then while you push it up to point form, the bottom punch may profile that base into a boat tail base. Since the case is already annealed with the molten lead, it should be soft enough.
Daywalker- Admin
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Location : Virginia
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
Daywalker wrote:Make a gas check die for a .224 bullet, gas check it then push it in backwards and you would have a fully enclosed bullet as well. One might be able to make a bottom punch and drill a boat tail profile, then while you push it up to point form, the bottom punch may profile that base into a boat tail base. Since the case is already annealed with the molten lead, it should be soft enough.
but whenever you use a gas check like that, there's always a chance of the gas check comming off. where if you used a boat tail like punch.. it would be all the same brass, removing the possibility of the base comming off..
anyways.. soo many possibilities when you make your own.. lol.. its endless..
dan
DanRickard- Member
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Age : 50
Location : vancouver, wa
DanRickard- Member
- Posts : 207
Join date : 2010-10-18
Age : 50
Location : vancouver, wa
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
@DanRickard
Where did you get the point forming die? Or did you make it?
Where did you get the point forming die? Or did you make it?
xboxhacker- Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-12-21
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
xboxhacker wrote:@DanRickard
Where did you get the point forming die? Or did you make it?
i made it from streaded bar stock.
DanRickard- Member
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Location : vancouver, wa
DanRickard- Member
- Posts : 207
Join date : 2010-10-18
Age : 50
Location : vancouver, wa
xboxhacker- Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-12-21
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
xboxhacker wrote:WOW!
lol.. thanks..
DanRickard- Member
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
Is that an old punch you use to drill with?
xboxhacker- Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-12-21
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
xboxhacker wrote:Is that an old punch you use to drill with?
nope.. it was a long screw driver bit for a drill.. the long 6 inchers you can buy at home depot.
they are very strong steel, so they make great cutting bits.
DanRickard- Member
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
how did you come up with the shape for the cutter?
xboxhacker- Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-12-21
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
xboxhacker wrote:how did you come up with the shape for the cutter?
i just used a factory bullet as a model, and shaped it so that its as close to the factory bullet as i could. i would set the factory bullet next to the one i was shaping, and compared it. i used a micrometer to check the size and length to match and so on.
i shaped the cutter while it was chucked into a drill press, and had the drill press running, then used files and sand paper until it was the shape i wanted.
DanRickard- Member
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Age : 50
Location : vancouver, wa
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
I have thought about starting the bullet in the point forming die then turning it around it should flatten the base out that way and kind of lock it around the core like factory fmj. Have you tried that?DanRickard wrote:hay daywalker.
i also did another expierement, and pressed a 224 upside down.. with the lead opening at the bottom.. it made a sweet solid point bullet.
if i could find a way to make a semi boat tail punch, it may curl the open bottom inward to allot it to become a flat solid base.. we would have a fmj then..
dan
Reload3006- Member
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Join date : 2010-11-19
Age : 64
Location : West Plains, Mo. , St. Louis ,Mo.
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
Reload3006 wrote:I have thought about starting the bullet in the point forming die then turning it around it should flatten the base out that way and kind of lock it around the core like factory fmj. Have you tried that?DanRickard wrote:hay daywalker.
i also did another expierement, and pressed a 224 upside down.. with the lead opening at the bottom.. it made a sweet solid point bullet.
if i could find a way to make a semi boat tail punch, it may curl the open bottom inward to allot it to become a flat solid base.. we would have a fmj then..
dan
actualy, i did it kinda worked.. but not well enough. the case rippled..
later i figured out, that a large rifle primer, one that was shot already, fit perfectly into the open base.. i pressed the primer body into the base, and wala, i made a perfect fully formed FMJ!.
dan
DanRickard- Member
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Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
I salute DanRickhard & the other machinists who make such neat stuff.
I am not ready to venture into the realm of making my own .224 bullets yet as I am still watching and learning.
This guy on Evilbay sells several bullet swaging set ups. I have his adjustable core mold, and after some home modifications, it has been a great tool to pour cores for my .44 mag bullets.
I have CH4D .44 bullet swaging dies, and this guy offers dies at comparable prices. I cannot afford to buy some of his .22 LR swaging set up as much as I would like to until the bank account recovers from the Christmas carnage.
Maybe someone would like to purchase one to either poach his design or improve it, or just to use.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350427021451&category=7308&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:US:SHOWI&emailtemplateid=29078057&sellerid=FpRekKD1aqCU+yHooX2atw==&buyerid=FpRekKD1aqDFBSdkYuq7mw==&refid=store
I am not ready to venture into the realm of making my own .224 bullets yet as I am still watching and learning.
This guy on Evilbay sells several bullet swaging set ups. I have his adjustable core mold, and after some home modifications, it has been a great tool to pour cores for my .44 mag bullets.
I have CH4D .44 bullet swaging dies, and this guy offers dies at comparable prices. I cannot afford to buy some of his .22 LR swaging set up as much as I would like to until the bank account recovers from the Christmas carnage.
Maybe someone would like to purchase one to either poach his design or improve it, or just to use.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350427021451&category=7308&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:US:SHOWI&emailtemplateid=29078057&sellerid=FpRekKD1aqCU+yHooX2atw==&buyerid=FpRekKD1aqDFBSdkYuq7mw==&refid=store
scorge30- Member
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Join date : 2010-11-27
Age : 56
Location : Marysville, WA
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
its not much different than what i did with mine.. the large die looks to be the de-rimming die.. though, there should be another punch. one punch is small enough to fit inside of the case to de-rim it.. where the other is the same size as the case, to swage it.
but who knows.
seeing how much cost it took me to build one, though, prolly wont last for 1,000's of bullets, dunno yet.. i've only swaged about 500 so far.
but i do know, soon, daywalker will be making dies for sell here to do exactly that.
thanks for the salute.
dan
but who knows.
seeing how much cost it took me to build one, though, prolly wont last for 1,000's of bullets, dunno yet.. i've only swaged about 500 so far.
but i do know, soon, daywalker will be making dies for sell here to do exactly that.
thanks for the salute.
dan
DanRickard- Member
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Location : vancouver, wa
Re: lee .224 sizing die punch not hard enough to swage
Yep, I am thinking that I am going to wait & see what DW comes up with before getting into the .224 bullet foray.
scorge30- Member
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Join date : 2010-11-27
Age : 56
Location : Marysville, WA
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