Can I salvage the cases or primers? I ran into crimped primer pockets for the first time.

Can I salvage the cases or primers? I ran into crimped primer pockets for the first time.
I put the pix on the free Google doc site since we don't want to use all of Daywalker's disk space.


Side view picture:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B7GdqbHHC2fkMDFlNDU5ZWQtMTQ2ZS00MzZiLWIwMzItMjZhMjBkMjZkZjU3&hl=en

Heads picture:

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B7GdqbHHC2fkNDY4ZGIwMzMtMTg3OS00ZDIyLThmOTItMzQ0Y2Q4ODM0Yjc0&hl=en

Angle view picture:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B7GdqbHHC2fkNjc0Nzc2NDAtNGQyNy00YWZhLTkwYjEtNjk0NWVkOWEzOGEy&hl=en


The ammo was PMC bronze in packages of 20 cartridges of 55 grain 223 Remington FMJ-BT.

I thought only military brass had crimped primer pockets. Guess not.

I tried to put the primer in using my RCBS Universal Hand Priming tool.

And I could not get them to seat. So I tried using the priming tool at the top of my Forster Co-Ax press.

You can get pretty good leverage on that. It marred up the rims and when the rims gave way the case flew across the garage. That shoulda been a hint. But I kept going until I had 5 cases messed up. I was thinking that maybe I did not have the primer ram centered properly.

So can I salvage the primers or the cases?

there are two things you can do. One you can use your deburing tool and ream the crimp off the primer pocket. it works but i think it shortens your brass life. or you can get either a Dylan or RCBS primer pocket swage to remove the crimp ... DayWalker has a video on his site or maybe its here on the process once you see it it will all be clear.
I couldn't see your pics but if your primers are pretty messed up i would just toss them. same for your brass its not worth taking a chance with iffy brass. but the crimp is easily removed before you reprime. PMC is not the only cartridge that crimps the primers in .223 Federal does too that i know of then all military brass has the crimp. hope this helps.

Thanks. For the five cases in the pix, do deprime them or fire them in my bolt-action rifle?

well i cant see the pix for some reason your link doesn't bring up a pix for me. But if the case isn't damaged to bad and you dont have any powder or bullets in the cases just put them in you rifle an pop em. then knock the primers out in your case size deprime die. then cut the crimp off the primer pocket and they will be good to go. I have cut the crimp off using my RCBS deburing tool. but i now own the RCBS primer pocket swage and its much better. but the brass is probably save-able. I have just deprimed live primers but IT IS NOT RECOMENDED AS THEY CAN BLOW.

http://www.atgreloading.com/t293-rcbs-primer-pocket-swage-combo
check out this video.

Reload3006 wrote:well i cant see the pix for some reason your link doesn't bring up a pix for me.

I have changed the share settings now. I had not changed the default which is not to share. I have changed it to share with no restrictions. You should be able to see them now.

ok i can see it now? dont know why i couldn't before. but most of those I would just toss. I guess they may be ok in a bolt rifle but you would have to be careful how you put them in because if your shell ejector doesn't have anything to hold on to you would have a stuck cartridge in the chamber of your rifle. the primers are just shot IMO

At the outdoor gun range I go to they have a small bucket marked "duds" at some of the stations. So I can take throw them in there the next time I am at the range? I guess that is the "proper" way to dispose of them?

yea that would work.

I viewed the video and drove over to the 10 Ring and bought the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Combo:

http://www.10ring.com/reloading/reloading-equipment/case-conditioning-amp-preparation/primer-pocket-amp-flashhole-tools/primer-pocket-swager-combo

It works great!!! You won't be disapointed.. This reminds me, I think I was suppose to take some measurements for someone......

EdgarEg wrote:At the outdoor gun range I go to they have a small bucket marked "duds" at some of the stations. So I can take throw them in there the next time I am at the range? I guess that is the "proper" way to dispose of them?

if I ever saw a bucket marked "dud's" at the range....it would be empty in no time.

I'd have a night of pulling bullets and deactivating primers.

Looking at your pics, I'd toss those damaged cases...just dump some oil in them first.
I'm glad you picked up the pocket swager....I need one too, I have been chamfering out the crimp, but I'd rather not do it that way.

those primers are beyond salvageable IMO. the cases will probably be fine, especially for a bolt action, but might have extraction problems. just deprime them SLOWLY, with even pressure, and make sure to wear safety glasses.

I use the Dillon Super Swage now, but I also used to use the deburring tool method to remove the crimp. Just don't take too much material.

PMC is military brass, even though it is sold commercially. My understanding is its made in So. Korea for the troops there.

Reload3006 wrote:http://www.atgreloading.com/t293-rcbs-primer-pocket-swage-combo
check out this video.

I watched the video. I liked the part at 4 minute 50 seconds, right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mviHb0E3IZc#t=4m50s

where Daywalker says:

Swage on!!!

When I tried the swager I found out that the rod would not go into a 223 case that had already been sized. Good thing I also purchased the Hornady and Lyman primer pocket reamers while I was at the 10 Ring. So I got several primed now. I will use the swager next time.

EdgarEg wrote:At the outdoor gun range I go to they have a small bucket marked "duds" at some of the stations. So I can take throw them in there the next time I am at the range? I guess that is the "proper" way to dispose of them?

ah.. here is a little info about disposal of reloading components.

primers : when you have toasted or deformed non-usable primers, put them into a can of motor oil. the oil will render the toutch explosives innert and it will never fire off. then once they have sit in the oil for a couple of days, you can dispose of the oil as normal oil.

powder : gun powder that is not identified, or not usable, can be disposed of in your yard. just sprinkle it around in the grass, and it will act as grass firtilizer. if you have dry grass, and worried about it toutching off, then just spray the yard down afterwards with a hose. the gun powder will break down, and turn into a great nitrogen food source for the grass.

brass : turn this in at the recycling center. if you tell them you want to trade for lead, they will give you a better deal.. normally recycle centers will NOT take brass bullet casings from rimfire catriges.. but they will take center fire if the primers are removed.

bullets : if you used a bullet puller, chances are the bullet is toast, and shouldn't be used.. you can melt this down in your melting pot and spoon off the copper jackets for a good source of pure lead. if its a FMJ, smack it with a hammer before melting, to cause some cracks to form in the jacket so that the lead has someplace to escape once it melts.

hope this helps,
Thanks,
DAn

I have to disagree with the bullet puller. I use both the kinetic and the press mounted bullet pullers. I pull my bullets and reload them with zero loss of accuracy what so ever..

Just thought I would pass that along before someone pulled some bullets and wasted them for no good reason...

Is it possible, yes, it is possible to damage a bullet with the press style puller if you crank the handle down to hard denting the bullets. Small pull marks do not harm the bullets at all. They sell milsurp pulls all the time.

For the most part (I would from personal workings, and my opinion from my personal works), 99% of the time, a pulled bullet is still in great shape and not useless...

I agree DW, Ive pulled and reused many bullets....I only use a the kinetic puller. Especially if I'm not 100% sure a cartridge was charged with powder.....pull the bullet, check for powder, resize if necessary, reseat,crimp and go....You can't tell them apart from the rest of the bunch.

I've made plenty of plinking rounds from range pickups that were never fired and left ejected on the ground. hell....I've even salvaged and used the bullets from rusty old steel cased ammo I've found.

You should definitely be able to reuse the bullet if it just has light collet marks.

IMO depends on what you are wanting to do with the pulled bullets. I don't think i would enter a bench rest competition with them. But as long as they aren't severely damaged they would make good plinking ammo. If you are wanting to cap prairie dogs at 600 yds maybe you should think of something else. but for normal shooting for fun they make great ammo. why not?

Reload3006 wrote:IMO depends on what you are wanting to do with the pulled bullets. I don't think i would enter a bench rest competition with them. But as long as they aren't severely damaged they would make good plinking ammo. If you are wanting to cap prairie dogs at 600 yds maybe you should think of something else. but for normal shooting for fun they make great ammo. why not?

Yea, I don't shoot benchrest nor do we have prairi dogs around to shoot. I can see where in benchrest shooting that the marks on the bullets can hinder the competition. All of my shooting has been at 100 yards with no difference at all and a nice tight group that has not changed. I do understand that 100 yards is different at 600 yards as well as 1k yards.

For shooting at the range, or deer hunting, I would not hesitate to use my pulls at all.

You know, this topic of pulled bullets would be a great platform for testing. I wish I could some how recreate a 600 yard shot at 100 yards but I do not believe that to be possible at all. After all, no matter how you look at it, 100 yards is 100 yards and 600 yards is 600 yards lol..

nicked or scratched bullets is better than no bullets at all(as long as they didn't get removed with pliers). I'm picky when I need to be picky...other than that, anything will do.

Just like the topic of this thread....salvageable? If they were all I had...you bet!

i guess if you really want to use the bullets you always could after pulling them. i dont bother, but then again all of my bullets are swaged so, its easy enough for me to make new ones.

i have noticed that after bullets are pulled, the seating of the old bullet does seat loose compared to fresh ones. also, if you mic your bullets after pulled, you'll notice they are about .001 - .0015 smaller than what they where before you seated them. i noticed this with my 45's, and my 223's using factory bullets.. i haven't bothered to mic my swage ones after i pulled them.


anyhow.. thanks for the input guys.


dan

When you pull the bullets, if seating back into the same case you pulled from, you will have to resize the case back for a proper fit.

I am going to go and test a few bullets as I don't see how bullets are being sized down seating into a brass case unless being over crimped if crimping. The case mouth expands to the bullets. The bullets are alot harder than the case so I don't see how the case can size a bullet down at all.... Since yours is sizing down, this makes things interesting. In a bit, I am going to seat a few 223's measure before and after. Now if your getting excessive pull marks and you are measuring inside the pull marks, then this could be how the measurements is being off.. I very rarely get pull marks that are very noticable mainly on my non crimped rounds. Now my crimped rounds, I get pull marks alot, but still isn't bad...