Solid Point 223 Swage

hay everyone,
i kinda ran up on something.. when i was swaging my 223 soft points, i put one in upside down without realizing it, and when it came out, OMG.. looked sweet.

i did a couple of more to see if it was a fluke, but nope.. they all came out fantastic.

check them out.. Full formed solid points.

Nice, kinda resemble minature soda pop bottles in a way....When you going to get to be able to shoot them?

Daywalker wrote:Nice, kinda resemble minature soda pop bottles in a way....When you going to get to be able to shoot them?

dunno.. depends on the weather here. its cold and snowy up on the mountian shooting range.. so if i do shoot them, it would have to be at a local range. which costs $$. something i dont have right now.. so i gotta wait till it warms up a little so i can get up to the gravel pits.

but they did size down to .224 without any problems.. so i dont see why they wouldn't be able to fly..

more importantly, how well would they perform.. what kind of impact would they do in some ballistics gel. thats the big question.. any of these bullets we make here will shoot.. no dought about it, if they size to the correct size, they will shoot, and will prolly be some what accurate, thanks to the grooving in our barrels.. so the big question, is what do they do when they hit something?


dan

Yea that is kinda what I was meaning about when you were going to be able to get out and shootem. I knew they would leave the barrel and go through the air. Kinda interested in group size for accuracy and expantion upon impact..

Now, if you could figure out how to notch that tip, might help out a bit...

as far as expantion, i dont think anything could beat my cast points.. they are unbelievable compared to everything else on the market.

dont think i could notch these.. because the point is forming at the base of the cup, as opposed to the top open end.

i think for these, what kind of penatration could they do. then because they are solid points, it could be possible to swage a solid steel core into them. which would be freeken cool for armor piercing. but, i dought i would ever need such a bullet.. but would be sweet to have the option to make them.


anyways, i thought i would show the findings to everyone.. it was interesting enough to see that the points formed at all..

Yes sir, defintaly a break through right there that is for sure. Thanks for sharing. A steel core would be awsome to have no doubt. Now if someone could come up with a good tracer to load these with...

i wonder if a normal road flare component would work for a tracer.. its not really explosive, so it wouldn't add anything to the pressures. and its bright enough.. humm.. i'm tempted...


dan

and if you swage them with the cup forming punch, you'll have a nice little opening in the back side for the flare component. lol.

ok guys.. late night R&D going on at my place tonight.

i did a reverse swage of a 223 cup, and used my cup forming punch, and made a solid point with a slight opening at the bottom..

then took a used winchester large primer, and poped the anvile out of it, then used the normal point forming punch, to swage the primer into the open base.

the result. A FULLY FORMED FULL METAL JACKET 223!!!

check out the pics of the first one!

here is another where i didn't swage it as hard, and left the primer dent in it.

Might work well for paper punching, but I would doubt that they would open up on game? Wouldn't really know until you tested them in ballistics gel, but I bet they would plow straight through without expanding like a FMJ. That would all depend on how strong or thick the jacket is I imagine.
Good work.

It's nice to have the ability to make your own, cause you never know when the state of the Nation will turn south?
Any bullet at all is better than No bullets at all.
I could rely on my surplus ammo and components for awhile, but after that I dunno.

sup mohunter,
most fmj's dont expand much when they hit game anyways.. more for planking than anything else. should be using HP's for game anyways.. much better expantion.

daywalker and i had talked about using a gas check to seal the bottom, but then i noticed that large primers where exactly the right size to do it.. its a nice find.. anything i can re-use from reloading is a bonus..

having a solid point with an open end is ok and all, but to have one fully encapsulated is much better. now if i can only find a old road flare, i think i maybe able to make a Tracer!

talking about options with a 22 swage die.
not to mention all the weight variances you can make with bullets, but now we can add FMJ's to the list of possible bullets we can swage.


dan

DanRickard wrote:sup mohunter,
most fmj's dont expand much when they hit game anyways.. more for planking than anything else. should be using HP's for game anyways.. much better expantion.


dan

Actually, I like the polymer tips better than straight HP's. I get better accuracy with them, and depending on the brand of HP......my experience in the past has been rather "explosive" if you know what I mean? I killed a coyote earlier this fall with a 45gr. HP Winchester factory load and you could put a soda can inside the wound cavity, with no exit hole!

If it came right down to it, you could hunt with FMJ bullets........it would just be head and neck shots only, but at least you would still eat. That's really the most important thing of all......having food to eat, and being able to protect it.......without a bullet, that would be kinda tough.
Course I don't have much trouble getting food on the table with archery equipement, but protecting yourself against would be intruders who may be armed might pose a bit of a challenge.

The cool thing about protecting yourself with archery equipment Mo, if you get the time to get set up before hand, no muzzle flash, no muzzle flash or sound, the more time you have to fire the arrow, drop and ease to a different location. Never fire from the same place twice....

Just saying hehehe

true to all that mohunter.. eating and protecting yourself is the true point of making your own.

daywalker, one thing about trying to protect yourself with a bow, is that it doesn't kill right away.. they have pleanty of time to shoot back with deadly force. anamals may not be able to tell where an arrow comes from.. but humans will be able to easily.

truely, it would be a combination of bow and bullets to survive.. you would want to use bow whenever possible so intruders wouldn't know where you are.. also you can recover arrows and use them again. bullets are good for only one thing in a situation like this.. protection.

however, if your using bullets, chances are you'll never really run out as long as your doing the killing.. because every kill would yield more bullets! lol.. so, being a good marksman, and having tatical sense would be extreemly important.. one would more than likely try and avoid any shoot outs.

...

well i made a bunch more, and using the large primers works out well for capping the back ends.. they sized perfect, and weigh between 65 and 70 grains each.

thought i would show you all the progression of my 223 bullets making.

from left to right
large softnose cast point
swaged softnose
swaged FMJ

fine work there... I saw a guy on youtube that was using 6mm air soft pellets and swageing them into the tips to make a ballistic tip??? anyone ever try this???

kcatto wrote:fine work there... I aw a guy on youtube that was using 6mm air soft pellets and swageing them into the tips to make a ballistic tip??? anyone ever try this???

i have not.. something in me tells me, having plastic inside of a bullet is just wrong.. lol..

i saw the video's as well on doing that. because i hot pour lead into my cups, its a little hard for me to adjust the amount of lead per cup. i have to adjust the cup size with the lead amount when i do veriations.

maybe one day, i'll make a lead wire mold, and a core seating die, and give it a try.. but beyond using it for that purpose, i cant figure out any other reason why i would make a core seating die.. dont really need one with the way i'm swaging my bullets.

they are sweet projectiles.... should kill zombies, varmits or paper real good....

kcatto wrote:fine work there... I saw a guy on youtube that was using 6mm air soft pellets and swageing them into the tips to make a ballistic tip??? anyone ever try this???

algunjunkie right here on ATG has had them in full production for years. He even sells some.

I like #2 dan, I would keep making those if you intended to hunt with them. The first one with all exposed lead tip would work fine also, but I would be more concerned with leading or expanding too quickly with that one.
They look good, keep up the good work.

kcatto wrote:fine work there... I saw a guy on youtube that was using 6mm air soft pellets and swageing them into the tips to make a ballistic tip??? anyone ever try this???

guilty as charged

Mohunter wrote:

kcatto wrote:fine work there... I saw a guy on youtube that was using 6mm air soft pellets and swageing them into the tips to make a ballistic tip??? anyone ever try this???

algunjunkie right here on ATG has had them in full production for years. He even sells some.

I like #2 dan, I would keep making those if you intended to hunt with them. The first one with all exposed lead tip would work fine also, but I would be more concerned with leading or expanding too quickly with that one.
They look good, keep up the good work.

thanks mohunter. i've done balistics gel tests with #1's so far.. i've made about 1,000 and have shot about 800 of them so far.. no problems with leading. the short ogive on the jacket prevents leading from what i can figure out. they had over 3 feet of pennatration with a fragmentation cluster every 6 inches.

i cant wait to gel test the other two.

algunjunkie wrote:

kcatto wrote:fine work there... I saw a guy on youtube that was using 6mm air soft pellets and swageing them into the tips to make a ballistic tip??? anyone ever try this???

guilty as charged

how much do you sell them for algunjunkie?

i may buy a fiew before spring, just so i can put them into the mix to test with the balistics gel.

thanks,
dan